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April 23, 2010

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[01:08:33.922645]<techtonik>http://bitten.edgewall.org/wiki/Download#LatestDevelopmentSourceCode - it is better to move the Subversion link to subversion.apache.org and remove "We use Subversion for source revision control and code sharing." as people who download Bitten and interested in Development already know it/
[01:22:40.546847]<Hodgestar>I don't see anything wrong with what's there.
[01:22:57.248153]<Hodgestar>Hyperlinks are what the web is for.
[01:23:17.209892]<Hodgestar>And it's good to know which VCS a project is using.
[01:24:41.893125]<techtonik>signal to noize is 0. You are already saying which VCS project is using with The Subversion repository URL for the Bitten project is at: "
[01:25:09.878957]<techtonik>I propose to linkify "Subversion" and remove the one above.
[01:25:18.034847]<techtonik>the one means phrase
[01:30:39.818896]<techtonik>You should have an ability to grant me access to your Wiki resource using OAuth. That will greatly simplify reading/writing cycle.
[01:33:25.100460]<osimons>techtonik: for the official docs, the cycle is checkout, edit doc/*.rst files, ./setup.py build_doc to check (see then doc/index.html and browse docs locally). you just need epydoc + docutils installed, iirc.
[01:33:53.188738]<osimons>a patch would be easier to review than one item at a time on irc
[01:34:04.827849]<techtonik>iirc from a project committer is a bad sign. =)
[01:34:51.253684]<osimons>techtonik: been a while since i installed the dependencies... build docs all the time, but deps i would need to double check...
[01:34:51.966009]<Hodgestar>techtonik: Committer's are humans too. :)
[01:34:55.457996]<Hodgestar>s/'//
[01:34:55.467475]<evil_twin>hodgestar meant: techtonik: Committers are humans too. :)
[01:35:55.283843]<Hodgestar>A single big documentation clean-up patch would be pretty cool.
[01:36:04.723934]<techtonik>I mean that we need to write these comments down to avoid storing in volatile human memory.
[01:36:43.307646]<Hodgestar>techtonik: If you're keen to do this let me know, otherwise I'll see if I can interest someone at the sprint in going over the docs.
[01:36:53.637179]<techtonik>http://bitten.edgewall.org/ticket/568
[01:36:58.189834]<Hodgestar>techtonik: You could just grep your IRC logs. :)
[01:37:17.194284]<techtonik>I want this stuff to be on wiki.
[01:37:28.927756]<techtonik>I've just found it in the mailing list.
[01:37:46.390146]<techtonik>While I was looking for completely different thing.
[01:38:09.849587]<osimons>ah - i have already answered you. nice one :-)
[01:38:30.940102]<techtonik>So got very upset that my efforts were wasted, so I decided to change the situation and record it on wiki.
[01:39:19.635815]<techtonik>While looking at wiki, I've found that there is no development section and instead of downloads there is a link to subversion/
[01:39:57.955934]<techtonik>Actually, I can make a patch for wiki, but I can't even see the source.
[01:41:10.384993]<osimons>techtonik: the wiki in general is editable, however front page, downloads, documentation (the main visible project pages) are read only
[01:41:47.285164]<techtonik>That's why they should be kept at top quality.
[01:41:58.064627]<osimons>and, i don't need patches for the wiki of course
[01:42:49.959481]<techtonik>"sign", I've just discovered "Plain Text" link at the wiki bottom. =)
[01:42:58.262543]<techtonik>s/sign/sigh/
[01:42:58.272202]<evil_twin>techtonik meant: "sigh", I've just discovered "Plain Text" link at the wiki bottom. =)
[01:44:43.344962]<osimons>techtonik: there you go then :-) i've updated the Downloads page now, btw
[01:47:29.800065]<techtonik>kewlkewlkewl, thanks! but.. where is the dedicated development page to put docs building notes to?
[01:49:25.284693]*techtonik found BittenDev and is hacking
[01:50:20.197057]<osimons>techtonik: you creating BittenDev page?
[01:51:52.480385]<techtonik>No.
[01:52:01.971857]<techtonik>I though it would be a bad name.
[01:52:11.958130]<techtonik>So I am creating Development page instead.
[01:52:19.292736]<osimons>techtonik: don't!
[01:52:24.150062]<techtonik>Why/
[01:52:25.833515]<techtonik>?
[01:52:41.304985]<techtonik>Is DDP name is better?
[01:52:42.554410]<osimons>subpages for BittenDev/ makes sense, and follows the pattern used in related projects
[01:52:54.255221]<osimons>http://bitten.edgewall.org/wiki/BittenDev
[01:53:08.975818]<osimons>- and i got one page there so far
[01:53:16.685742]<techtonik>Why is the patter?
[01:53:59.938063]<techtonik>It is much easier to have unified /login page for all sites than /site1login /site2login etc..
[01:55:56.193262]<osimons>well, i'd see BiitenDev as a section for those working with Bitten, collect scraps and details, discussions, proposals and more. A "Development" could be a glossy page with overview enticing developers to join
[01:56:21.285910]<osimons>so, a BittenDev/BuildDocs makes sense to me
[01:56:40.136193]<osimons>- as does the release checklist i made earlier
[02:07:43.443368]<techtonik>I've refreshed BittenDev with information from the front page. Now it needs to be linked from there.
[02:09:09.701925]<techtonik>The subversion link can be removed from Bitten, but mailing list and irc channel may persist.
[02:09:30.670262]<techtonik>s/Bitten/main wiki page/
[02:09:31.409455]<evil_twin>techtonik meant: The subversion link can be removed from main wiki page, but mailing list and irc channel may persist.
[02:09:45.636271]<techtonik>evil_twin: thanks
[02:10:09.563773]<techtonik>evil_twin is impolite
[02:11:22.940928]<techtonik>Latest Development Source Code sounds strange. "Latest source code and
[02:11:41.791325]<techtonik>'Latest' because there is no stale code.
[02:12:02.386651]<techtonik>'Development' because there is no user code or some other code.
[02:12:19.320994]<techtonik>It is just 'code'
[02:12:40.806595]<techtonik>Who manages evil_twin?
[02:12:59.284226]<techtonik>It should learn about wiki notifications.
[02:15:15.122705]<osimons>techtonik: update front page. now just verify the build_docs setup on a new page, and we can close that ticket of yours.
[02:15:55.259113]<osimons>there is another bot announcing commits here, so the evil one is not configured for that here
[02:16:51.332114]<techtonik>osimons: Commits are good, but I am speaking about wiki and ticket notifications.
[02:18:15.213593]<techtonik>osimons: s/Bitten Dev section contains information about working with the Bitten source code./* [wiki:BittenDev Develop Bitten]/
[02:31:57.773970]<techtonik>I've got a merge conflict on the wiki SourceCode. =) We should support Wave editor.
[02:33:10.128736]<techtonik>Aha. It is a bug.
[02:33:13.205270]<techtonik>In Trac.
[02:34:27.608325]<techtonik>If nobody was editing the page then I couldn't enter in conflict mode. Seems like one of "Preview Page" or "Review Changes" buttins caused this.
[02:35:48.103542]<osimons>SourceCode page?
[02:36:08.642009]<techtonik>http://bitten.edgewall.org/wiki/BittenDev
[02:36:26.936885]<techtonik>TitleIndex produces bad results.
[02:37:18.113957]<techtonik>It doesn't allow you to order pages in logical way and provide titles for the links/
[02:38:34.289378]<osimons>i've updated the front page too. now i have other things i need to do for a while.
[02:44:28.506324]<techtonik>It looks much better now. Thanks.
[02:45:08.401277]<techtonik>However, s/# Roadmap and Open Tickets /# Roadmap and Opened Tickets /
[03:07:27.199600]<Hodgestar>Open is correct. Opened is past tense.
[04:31:24.704326]<techtonik>"Wow, a whole new world of the english language just...hum.... opened before my eyes!" (c) http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/15771-open-opened-welcome-welcomed.html
[04:32:22.262152]<techtonik>Wasting time to annoy people so that they edit wiki can be fruitful sometimes. =)
[04:33:38.448348]<Hodgestar>Cool?
[04:33:44.754487]<techtonik>Cool.
[04:33:57.385665]<techtonik>s/Cool/Kewl1/
[04:33:57.394819]<evil_twin>techtonik meant: Kewl1.
[04:34:31.937953]<techtonik>Can anybody post the two links below to http://bitten.edgewall.org/ticket/563 - akismet doesn't like me.
[04:34:34.836844]<techtonik>?
[04:34:42.602453]<techtonik>http://www.switchonthecode.com/tutorials/javascript-tutorial-resizeable-textboxes
[04:34:48.156365]<techtonik>http://www.switchonthecode.com/tutorials/javascript-controls-resizeable-textbox
[04:40:27.341908]<Hodgestar>Btw, I use the It's All Text plugin for Firefox that allows me to open textareas up in my usual editor.
[04:41:28.393775]<osimons>also available in Trac 0.12dev now (jquery plugin), so look at adding that resizing to Bitten for 0.7
[04:42:14.562288]<Hodgestar>Although now I actually use my patch that allows recipes to be stored in the repository so I hardly ever edit the recipe through the web interface.
[04:45:19.339519]<Hodgestar>http://bitten.edgewall.org/ticket/563
[04:45:46.764694]<Hodgestar>techtonik: I added your links and bumped the milestone to 0.7 following osimons' comment.
[06:04:11.675239]<techtonik>BTW, Trac area resize from Facebook suxx.
[06:04:30.093571]<techtonik>The field for recipe edition is too narrow.
[06:04:40.239359]<techtonik>XML syntax is verbose.
[06:26:05.622187]<osimons>Hodgestar: my english-speaking friend... it is never "informations" in english, right? always "information" regardless?
[06:26:28.573283]<Hodgestar>Yep.
[06:26:38.868940]<osimons>goodie.
[06:26:53.913827]<Hodgestar>Information is like water. :)
[06:52:40.449047]<davidfraser>Hodgestar: Many waters cannot quench informations
[11:29:21.314447]<techtonik>AttributeError: 'ObjectTree' object has no attribute 'resource'
[11:29:33.208757]<techtonik>File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.5/bitten/report/coverage.py", line 182, in post_process_request
[11:29:35.264198]<techtonik> and data.get('context').resource or None
[11:29:44.230775]<techtonik>When appending debug=true
[11:29:47.873557]<techtonik>to any URL.
[11:30:25.248979]<techtonik>Using TracDeveloper plugin.
[12:06:28.911284]<Hodgestar>Time to do some preparation for the sprint.
[12:07:45.191852]<techtonik>Is Bitten compatible with TracDeveloperPlugin
[12:07:47.010091]<techtonik>?
[12:08:03.989297]<Hodgestar>I don't know. What does the TracDeveloperPlugin do?
[12:08:20.097294]<Hodgestar>Certainly I think Bitten would like to play nicely with other plugins.
[12:22:21.499551]<techtonik>It allows you to debug Trac plugins. =)
[12:22:32.598957]<techtonik>!TracDeveloperPlugin
[12:26:33.317983]<techtonik>http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/TracDeveloperPlugin
[12:28:21.639785]<techtonik>There is one more little thing left to close "Download page edits" ticket - http://bitten.edgewall.org/ticket/568#comment:1
[12:30:20.933222]<Hodgestar>TracDeveloperPlugin looks useful. Now the trick is to remember it exists next time I need it. :)
[12:30:45.113516]<osimons>techtonik: it is obvious that the developer plugin always presumes there will be a context with a resource in the data dictionary. that is true for all of trac now, but not a presumption that holds water in the world of plugins - i think the developer plugin should be slightly more careful in its data access
[12:31:07.168121]<osimons>- that said, bitten has resources and could make a context
[12:33:17.552022]<techtonik>Is there any page to read about "resources" and "contexts" - it all sounds too abstract to get the understanding of what should be patched first.
[12:34:06.484205]<osimons>techtonik: sure, http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracDev/ContextRefactoring
[12:34:56.665043]<techtonik>Is there a definition of interface that "resource" should comply with to estimate if a .context should be there, why it should be there and if there is an error if the .context isn't present at given time.
[12:36:16.043473]<osimons>seeing nothing in trac api demands that bitten supply a context, no plugin or code should expect one to be present
[12:36:57.775187]<osimons>(when accessing other peoples requests/code like the post_process call does)
[12:40:09.924665]<osimons>techtonik: that said, as far as i can tell bitten does supply a context and a resource for rendering. both for configs and for build
[12:41:41.650271]<osimons>Hodgestar: i still use my own home-brewed solution, here is an old paste of my site.html that i drop into the projects i want to debug http://paste.lisp.org/display/72561
[12:42:44.795509]<Hodgestar>osimons: Woot.
[12:47:09.901181]<osimons>Hodgestar: useful for discovery and to verify that things look as they should
[12:48:49.322343]<Hodgestar>I'm busy putting together a simple Trac+Bitten venv that people can use tomorrow to try stuff out in for the sprint. I'll include the site.html file in that.
[12:49:42.572159]<osimons>cool - it helps understanding i'd recon.
[13:18:57.527218]<osimons>updated the bitbucket clone, Hodgestar
[13:19:15.462716]<Hodgestar>osimons: Woot. Thanks.
[13:19:28.471251]<Hodgestar>I'm looking at the hg docs for working with an svn repository.
[13:20:50.679031]<osimons>Hodgestar: not sure what is there - i just use hgsvn, and just for reading into hg. not pushing back - that i do not trust...
[13:22:40.077855]<Hodgestar>Yeah. Much easier to pull the patches into an svn working copy and commit from there when you're sure everything is sane.
[13:24:01.070652]<osimons>yes - it adds a level of checks that i like. nothing like hg for keeping track of all my patches (mq), but actual commits is all patch -> svn working copy, taking care to handled file renaming, moving and so on properly
[13:25:45.254908]<osimons>but, the tools are getting better. i might be tempted to try again at some stage
[13:28:00.224900]<osimons>Hodgestar: cool thing about bitbucket is that you can also make patch queues instead of straight forks - that makes projects like this http://bitbucket.org/osimons/trac-rpc-mq - where the source is just the patches and the changes to them
[13:29:53.105688]<Hodgestar>osimons: I haven't really got to looking at patch queues yet. I started using hg seriously last week. :)
[13:30:54.487585]<osimons>Hodgestar: heh. take your time... once you wrap your head around them, there is really no going back... :-)
[13:31:59.981274]<Hodgestar>Hmm. hgsvnpull may take a while.
[13:32:19.836577]<Hodgestar>Even longer than hgpullsvn. :)
[13:37:38.445491]<osimons>hehe. it is a slow tool....
[13:40:50.486852]<techtonik>feed it a starting revision
[13:41:08.088462]<osimons>Hodgestar: what is your time now? ie. local time?
[13:41:19.222428]*osimons tried to calculate the sprint hours tomorrow...
[13:42:03.381570]*osimons adds Cape Town to iphone world clock...
[13:43:01.080758]<osimons>same. oki. i may be online in the beginning of your sprint, Hodgestar.
[13:46:55.367569]<techtonik>osimons: BitBucket should have a better MQ tutorial / integration. I still couldn't manage to make it going from the start, although I now use MQ.
[13:47:12.009068]<techtonik>osimons: Do you sync only trunk?
[13:47:35.051025]<techtonik>With mirror on BitBucket.
[13:48:23.214641]<osimons>to bitbucket? yes, currently as 0.6 branch is really identical. and, unlike trac i think we'll try to stick to "no new features in brances" which means all development (and my patches) are really against trunk
[13:48:32.096716]<osimons>- that is what i use, so that is what i sync :-)
[14:00:52.399024]<Hodgestar>osimons: Now it's 23:00.
[14:01:06.874093]<osimons>yeah, got it thanks.
[14:01:31.563308]<Hodgestar>Woot.
[14:54:52.261283]<Hodgestar>Off to try get a decent night's sleep before the sprint.
[23:48:35.845801]<Hodgestar>Morning davidfraser.